Few people bring the level of boundless enthusiasm that I’ve seen from Phil Smith.
We “met” over Facebook as a pair of eager soon-to-be college kids trying to make connections ahead of orientation. That spiraled into months of sharing music and band aspirations. Meeting in person was like catching up with an old friend instead of meeting for the first time. Fast-forward to the end of orientation weekend, and we’re both on stage in front of our fellow first-year students, fearless in showing our most relentlessly goofy selves. He’s been one of my best friends ever since.
Our band hopes never materialized during college, but we did get our chance shortly after graduation. Phil started a new band called Search Engine and needed a bassist. I had some self-taught experience and said I’d buy a bass to join them, so we bought it that afternoon. We played a couple of shows and put out a single, but it fell apart before finishing a 5-track EP.
I left town not long after Search Engine quietly ended. One of the last things I did before packing up a rental car was jam with Phil. We kept in touch over the years, whether it was when I came back to visit or our Facebook chats. When he and his partner moved to Japan to teach for ~2 years, we worked around the 13-hour time difference for semi-regular video calls. More recently, I’ve been a distant cheerleader as he moved back to Vermont and started YABAI! out of his basement.
Admittedly, I reached out to Phil in mid-August with a bit of selfish intent. This summer was, to put it mildly, a hellish streak of constant chaos. The cherry on top was getting laid off and being left profoundly burnt out. After a few weeks stuck in the mud, I figured Phil’s brand of infectious passion would give me a much-needed lift. (Spoiler: It did, and our chat ended with me effectively planning my next trip to Vermont.)
Let’s start with a softball question: what are you hooked on listening to right now?
Phil: The World is a Beautiful Place and I’m No Longer Afraid to Die is the band of the moment for me. Mainly their album Harmlessness, which I was turned on to by my partner. She made a playlist on Spotify full of albums I was obsessed with the year we met: New Pornographers, The Mountain Goats, Neutral Milk Hotel, and stuff like that. Then she went down the rabbit hole of being like, “Wait, maybe the music that Phil listens to now is really good too.” She’s in California right now and just texted me, “HELLMODE by Jeff Rosenstock is a fucking incredible album.” And I’m like, “It’s crazy you’re saying this to me right now,” because we historically haven’t had much music in common other than Sufjan Stevens. Now, she’s sending me amazing music like TWIABP.
I’ve also been obsessed with Petey. Do you know him?
[puzzled] I don’t think so?
What the fuck?! You gotta listen to Petey, dude! I almost want to stop the call and have you listen to a couple songs then come back, but we can’t do that!
Anyway, he’s really good, kinda emo/alt-rock that leans into the synthy side but has some good guitar work and amazing vocals. He had been doing music his whole life but didn’t get his “big break” until he was in his thirties and had kids. Then he got huge on TikTok as a comedian and was lowkey like, “By the way, check out my music,” and it’s actually top fucking notch. He sings about things I can personally relate to as a thirtysomething, like “How can I have an imprint on a child? Who am I to have that kind of responsibility?” The lyrics are top-notch, emo in a grown-ass adult way. I find it actually inspiring.
Well damn, you have sold me on checking out his latest record. I’ll even add it to a “Shit Phil told me to listen to” playlist. [laughs]
Alright, let’s jump back in time. Can you tell me about the catalyst moment that made you love music?
It was when I got my bass in 8th grade. That was the first instrument I ever asked my parents for because everybody else wanted to play guitar, and I wanted to increase my chances of getting into a band.
At the time, I was going through the typical phases of that age. I got really into Linkin Park and My Chemical Romance. I wore black hoodies that I thought were goth but conflicted with tennis shoes and blue jeans.
Anything to win over the goth girls who shopped at Hot Topic.
Oh yeah.
Before that, I either listened to mixtapes of Top 40 hits that my aunt made me or what my dad listened to, which was almost exclusively bluegrass and Americana. I didn’t really start to see music as an art form until I got to high school. I made a bunch of new friends, one of whom got me into Red Hot Chili Peppers.
A band you were still very much into when we first met in college if I recall correctly?
Dude, Stadium Arcadium was the first album that I ever really worshiped. I was obsessed with every instrumental part and knew the whole record from front to back.
Oh, you don’t have to convince me. I was also eagerly overexposed to that album.
The best part was that I was just starting to fancy myself a singer when it came out. But I wasn’t good because I never practiced that before. Anthony Kiedis also sucks at singing, so I could sing along with the same power he had.
That kind of led to starting a band during freshman year called Fault and the Fiddler, which we got from putting our names into a random name generator. It was not a good name, but we made t-shirts and played a couple of shows that got me hooked on performing. Then, some classic high school band drama led to us breaking up. I wanted to keep playing music, but it’s hard to stay enthused when playing bass alone.
Is that what pushed you to start learning guitar?
Yeah. I got an acoustic guitar at the start of my junior year and started teaching myself. The first song I ever learned/arranged was a really soft cover of “Float On” by Modest Mouse, which was my favorite band at the time. From there, I just started doing acoustic covers of other songs, and that was how I played guitar for a long time.
Towards the end of high school, I joined a band called Spaceman Spiff as a bassist. Mostly because I was still much more confident on the bass than the guitar. It was the first time when I was writing songs for a band. Gradually, this went from elaborating on my root notes on bass to giving our guitarist a part I wrote and saying, “Play this,” with all the passive aggression of a 17-year-old. We ended up putting out an album in 2012 and I wrote many of those songs on guitar.
When you write songs, where do you find the most creative expression? Does it come out more in the lyrics than the melody, or does it land somewhere in between?
It’s both. I don’t write lyrics first, though I know many people who keep journals of all their ideas for lyrics. When I tried to do that, I struggled to put full songs together based on those random thoughts.
Instead, the expression tends to come out of the guitar first, and the lyrics come out of how that part makes me feel. I think about, “What is something in my life that is similar to that feeling?” and then write based on that. I am very proud of the lyrics I write and don’t think of them as an afterthought, but usually, I find that the lyrics are inspired by the guitar.
What do you do to keep yourself motivated as a songwriter?
During the school year, I often designate Sunday afternoons to be my songwriting time. I’ll go down to the basement with the goal of writing a song over a few hours. Being regimented about it has really helped me turn that creative spigot on at will rather than having it be like, “Oh, I’m so inspired right now. I must write!” or “Ugh, I need to wait for inspiration to strike.”
It’s a common feeling, but creativity is a muscle that must be exercised. If you wait until you have this random, crazy good idea, you’re doing a disservice to your art. Sitting down and saying, “It’s time to be creative,” and almost forcing it is actually a good thing if you do it regularly.
Some of my best songs have come from noodling around on guitar for 20 minutes until I stumble on something that sounds cool enough to write lyrics and vocal melodies. All I need to do is push myself to mess around and the process is well-oiled at this point. I have not felt writer’s block once in the past year. Not everything is fantastic, but if a song doesn’t turn out great, I say, “Whatever, that was fun, goodbye forever,” and write another next week. And that one might be good enough to bring to the band.
Have you navigated creative droughts in your life?
After Search Engine ended, I didn’t play guitar or write a song for six years. I just had no desire to, but I didn’t feel bad about it or unfulfilled in any way. One day, I felt like guitar and music weren’t making me happy. At the end of the day, it’s a hobby, so if I’m not excited, then I shouldn’t do it.
So I got really into hiking, cycling, and snowboarding, which made me feel fulfilled and happier overall. Time away made me realize that my relationship with music had been toxic since around sophomore year of college and through to that point. For those four years, I was very insecure. I was writing songs and simultaneously saying, “My songs are fucking incredible,” and “I’m a terrible guitarist.” And both of those things mattered deeply to me. If I went a couple months without writing a song, it would be upsetting, and I’d think, “I’ve lost it. I can’t do this shit anymore.”
I remember being very depressed, walking around downtown Burlington, and having this realization like, “What if in 10 years, I don’t play guitar? That would be the saddest thing to possibly happen.” But that was incorrect because I became way happier when I put the guitar away.
Being depressed, insecure, having a huge ego, and hating yourself is not a good combination for anybody trying to be consistently creative. Creativity can come from sadness, but it shouldn’t be the only well you draw from. In my last phase of writing music, I had convinced myself that I could only write when depressed.
When I started writing for YABAI!, I wasn’t trying to meet the expectation of writing better songs than what I did before. I was doing it for fun. It’s cool that I’m in a full band again because I didn’t ever plan for this to happen. It feels like an accident to be writing better songs than what I made before. But it makes sense because I have six years of experiences that I haven’t written about!
How important is friendship to your musical collaborations?
I think friendship is the most important thing when playing music with others. I would rather have my bandmates all get along and be decent at their instruments than be relatively antisocial, prideful, or just toxic but crazy talented. It’s more fun, and I find it makes a more cohesive group.
That was the case back in Search Engine: we were all great friends first. But you and I ended up being like co-band leaders because there wasn’t any accountability. A lot of bands fall apart because they’re like, “Fuck the man, we don’t need leadership of any kind!” But without those explicit roles, shit quickly falls apart, people get hurt, and things go unsaid.
Can confirm. I have been in that band.
That’s why I’m “in charge” of YABAI!. I made it clear at the beginning when it was me and Scott, then when Eric and Mitch joined. They know their roles and the expectations, and I listen to them when they feel strongly about something. But at the end of the day, I make the decisions. They don’t have to stick around if they don’t like that.
So far, it has helped the social cohesion of the band and allowed us all to be friends doing this thing together without any hidden tensions. That means I do all the booking, social media, poster designs, merch ordering, yada yada. But I’m willing to take that on and not resent anyone else in the band because I don’t expect them to do it. It also leaves room for Eric to cook up a good setlist order or Scott to help get tax breaks for our recording equipment.
What’s the future looking like for YABAI!?
Right now, it’s been a mix of playing shows, recording, and writing more songs for our first album. We’re still babies in the Burlington scene, but we’ve played out a bunch and seem to be well-liked. We’ve been invited to open for some of the bigger local punk bands, like Better Things and Vallory Falls, and have made many friends along the way. There’s just so much positivity in this scene right now. It’s really fun to be playing out and being a part of it.
When our first single [“Simplify”] came out, people were eager to share it on their social pages and support us. I don’t think “Simplify” is close to our best song, but people sing along and make it feel like it’s our signature song to play live. I’m sure everyone in the band has a different one that they like to play more. That has me excited that it’ll be a genuinely good album. I know that’s easy to say that because it’s music I created, but I just can’t wait to show people what we have.
Any estimate on when to expect the album?
My guess is that we’ll finish it in January or February and then release it sometime after that.
You know I will have to get my ass to Vermont for that inevitable album release show!
Hell yeah, dude, you better!
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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